who: Carol Channing
what: live music, theater
where: Shryock Auditorium
when: Thursday, October 2

Carol Channing:
A Conversation with an American Legend

by Jeff Hale

There are stars, there are legends, and then there's Carol Channing.

Once in a while, Southern Illinois audiences are fortunate enough to welcome true American greatness and to sit captivated by a voice they not only recognize, but feel as though they know. The voices are rare; there is perhaps one in every generation. Or, in the case of Carol Channing, perhaps there is only one. For more than sixty years, with her trademark husky voice, infectious, wide-eyed smile, and larger-than-life stage presence, she has carved out a place for herself in the collective American consciousness. Her unforgettable roles, like Lorelei in the original broadway production of Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (a role later immortalized on screen by Marilyn Monroe) and the inimitable matchmaker Dolly Levi in Jerry Herman's Hello Dolly (which eventually went to Barbara Streisand) have become cornerstones in the history of modern musical theater, and the songs they produced, like "Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend" and "Before the Parade Passes By," have become stage anthems. In her accolade-studded career, which spans six decades, two Tony Awards, and more than five-thousand performances of her signature role of Dolly Levi, Carol Channing has shared the stage and screen with some of entertainment's other most-loved legends. From the World War II generation who first saw her in Lend Me an Ear to the Generation Xers who remember her singing with Kermit on The Muppet Show to today's toddlers who recognize her unmistakable voice in popular animated films like Thumbelina, there is no doubt that Carol Channing is an American institution

Southern Illinois audiences will have a chance to glimpse her greatness up close as Carol Channing sweeps into Carbondale for An Evening with Carol Channing, presented by the SIU Public Policy Institute Thursday, October 2 at 7:30 p.m. at Shryock Auditorium. Tickets are $15 for the public, and $10 for students with valid I.D. For more information or to reserve tickets by phone, call the Shryock Auditorium box office weekdays from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. at (618) 453-ARTS.

Channing is bold, open, and honest, a woman who, in what many would call the winter of her life, seems to just be getting started, with a one-woman show, a recently released best-selling memoir (2002's Just Lucky, I Guess), and a brand-new marriage to the junior-high sweetheart she first met seventy years ago. It's a rollercoaster ride, so fasten your seat belts and get ready to laugh. Readers, this is Carol Channing.

I know that you were born in Seattle, Washington, but I'd like to take you back briefly to San Francisco in the early 1920s. As a little girl, what was the first song you ever remember singing?
Let's see. It was something with my father. My father and I used to sing together. I don't remember which one it was, but it was something that my father taught me. I don't remember the first time I sang with my father, but I grew up singing with him, and it was my mother's happiest moments.

It seems like you can't remember a time when you weren't singing.
I honestly can't remember a time when I wasn't. Isn't that odd?

When you were a little girl, was there a place deep inside you where you knew that someday you would be singing for the world? And did you ever think that you would still be singing eight decades later?
Oh, certainly not, no. But children usually go through an age where they just can't understand that they must be careful and not fall off the fence and not do daring things, you know? But I always thought, "No, you're gonna need that foot. You're gonna need that finger. Don't play around like they're playing with knives and things.".... But beyond that, no.

Your father was a very active voice in the early Christian Scientist movement, and was probably what we would call today an activist. Christian Science faith is a very powerful faith that has encountered both widespread popularity and controversy. How did growing up with a background of such strong personal faith help to shape your personality?
Well, you see, there was love in my family; I was very fortunate with my parents. And where there's love-- genuine, unconditional love, which is what parents should be giving their children-- where there's that, there's no problem.

Has your faith ever had any effect on the choices you have made in your career?
Honestly, I do not know, because I don't know which is me or which is Christian Science, or which is just any religion that helps one. When you pray, I think any religion helps a human being. I don't know which is me and which is prayer.

Do you remember the first time you ever went on stage?
Yes, it was in the fourth grade, and I was seven years old.

It's a funny thing. I talked to Gene Shallett, and he asked me that question: "When did you first know what you wanted to dedicate your life to?" And he said it right with me when I said "at seven years old." And I said "How did you know," and he said that anyone who has a calling very young, that they must go in this direction, all got hit when they were seven years old. Something must happen to our metabolism at that age, and we suddenly know. Something comes into our lives and we say, "That's the path I will dedicate my life to."

You went to Bennington College in Vermont, majoring in drama and dance, and you chose to pursue education and a career when that was more the exception than the rule for most women. Did you realize at the time that what you were doing was, for women at the time, very unusual? Did you ever deal with any criticism for those choices?
No, there were just as many female actors are there were males. You see, the sphere that I live and work in hasn't got all those laws and boundaries about what civilized life should be. In the creative arts, a painter, a writer, any of the creative arts, there were just as many women as men. I never thought of that, because I'm not in a world where they make stipulations that women are a help mate and men are the ones that do the work. I'm not in that world; I'm in the creative world. There's no boundary lines. Whoever's giving the most to this project that we're working on, that is the one to be respected, and there's no other law.

Was there ever a time when, as a young woman, New York intimidated you? Was there ever a time when you questioned, "Do I belong here?"
Oh, no. I knew I belonged there. I knew I belonged in the theater world. I knew that because I never got off the stage. I remember they named the high-school auditorium at my old high school, Lowell High School, they named it the Carol Channing Theater. And I said "Why did you do that? I don't understand." The principal said "Because you were the only student who never got off the stage. We had to do it; you were the only student who never got off the school-auditorium stage."

When you were an up-and-coming actress, who was the first famous person you remember seeing?
Well, I always knew what they were all doing way back in the seventh grade. I used to read Theater Arts Monthly, and I used to read about everybody on Broadway. And of course I was raised in San Francisco. If a show is enough of a hit, in those days, it would tour. The shows toured, so I was always familiar with all of them.

When you were raising your son [Pulitzer Prize-winning editorial cartoonist Channing Lowe] and working, did you find it difficult juggling the roles of mother and actress simultaneously?
It shouldn't have been as difficult as it was, but it was very difficult. You see, I had to keep leaving him, and that hurt. That really really bothered me. Oh, I was just miserable about it.

Most actors and actresses today are lucky to find one career-making role. You've somehow managed to etch for yourself a place in the history of musical theater with many unforgettable roles, of course Lorelei in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and the unforgettable Dolly in Hello, Dolly. You've done more than five-thousand performances of Hello, Dolly.... Did singing those songs ever get old, especially now when you've been singing them for, in some cases, nearly fifty years?
While I was performing them I never got tired of them. It's like walking a tightrope. An audience is an X-ray machine, and they know everything you're thinking, even if your back is to them. I know this, because I can tell by audience reaction. The concentration is tremendous, and if it wavers for a second they don't hear that line. I remember once on stage, thinking, "Oh, what'll I have for dinner between shows? I'm hungry." And there was no laugh, and they didn't hear that line. They just don't hear it. It's eerie. The easiest thing in the world is to lose the audience, and to get them back again is, well, sometimes you don't. You can lose the audience by not thinking every single line. It's a craft and it's a science and it's also an art.

The list of people you've worked with is a list of legends and luminaries on both the stage and the screen. I'm going to mention a few names and, if you could, just recall a memory of that person. Eve Arden.
She was like Heaven. She [was] just a dear, wonderful woman and anyone who was in her company would tell you that. She was wonderful. It was in Danny Kaye's musical, Just Face It. He was working with Eve Arden and I was her understudy. Finally, she had a terrible cold and she said, "I'm going to let you go on for the Wednesday matinee." It was out of the goodness of her heart, really, because if she missed it, the audience certainly would have missed her. But I did do the matinee with Danny Kaye, and afterward she sent me a big bottle of perfume saying, "To the understudy who really studies." I was so proud of that, I kept it for years.

Mary Martin.
Oh, I was with her when she died. We always got along just perfectly, and that was because of Mary. She had no sense of competition. She knew there was room for all of us.

George Burns.
That was my favorite-- he was just dedicated to me. You see, Gracie [Allen, Burns's wife and comedic partner] chose me to work with her George. Gracie said to me, "George can't work with someone that I don't choose, and my doctor says I can't go on working. I have to choose someone." She said this to me, and she chose me. And it's been a blessing on my head like being knighted in St. James's court.

What was it like to work with the Muppets? That was the first time I ever saw you.
[Muppets creator Jim Henson] was just thrilled with his work. Oh, it was just wonderful. It sounds so saccharin, because everybody you mention is someone I'm devoted to. Frank Oz, when I met him, it was in London, because we broadcasted from London. He came in, and I said "Good morning!" and he said "Yes, mmm hmmm." And he just walked on in and [I] thought, "Well, what's the matter with him?" They told me, "Oh, he's very very shy." But later, he came back out as Miss Piggy, and we talked and talked and talked!

Switching gears, in your incredible career, has there ever been a role that you didn't take that you wished you had later?
Yes-- Mame. My husband turned it down. He wanted me to go on touring with Hello, Dolly. Jerry Herman asked him, as he was my manager, and he felt that Mame was a chance to take, where Dolly wasn't, so he said no. He wanted me to go on touring. He never told me about it. I found out later, after he was gone, that Jerry wanted me. And oh, I would have loved to have done Mame.

You've recently found love again, really the love of your life, with your junior-high sweetheart. What was it like to find love again in what some people would call the winter of your life?
This is love, really, for the first time in my life. We don't even notice it. He's exactly the same now as he was when we were twelve and thirteen. We went steady together when I was twelve, thirteen, and fourteen, and he was thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen. [Channing is now eighty-two and husband Harry Kullijaian is eighty-three.] That was middle school, and we're going to do a show for the students at that middle school. We're going back there, just out of sentiment. I used to do shows in middle school, and I grew up understanding audiences [there], just always learning, learning, learning.

You've had a very impressive recording career, with ten gold albums, as well as a reputation for being one of the most-loved nightclub performers. Of all the careers you've enjoyed, which one would you say has brought you the most joy?
Every one of them contributed to my learning more. Going into clubs gave me an understanding of how to handle audiences. There were two shows a night, and oftentimes, with the second show, there weren't very many people there. And sometimes there were just freeloaders. But, oh, what I learned. And I always tried to reach them, and finally I learned how to reach them [laughing]. If you can handle a drunk you can handle anything. Go with them, don't go against them. Leave yourself in their hands, and they can feel it, even through the alcohol. Go with the audience, don't fight them. Oh, I learned so much in clubs; it gave me a greater freedom in the theater. Everything [I] did, television, recordings. Everything I did gave me a greater freedom in the theater.

If you could sing only one song for the rest of your life, what do you think that would be?
Anything that my father taught me. Anything. He taught me the most wonderful American songs.... I sang them with him until he died in 1956....

If you were told that when you woke up tomorrow that all of the memories of your past would be gone except for one, which would you choose to hold on to and why?
I can't think of that immediately, but maybe it was when my son was born. I realized then what a miracle we all are.

To the young stars coming up in the theater today, you're like a diamond; you age but you never lose your shine. You have maintained yourself so well over the long haul. For someone to live to be eighty is not unusual in our society, but for someone to live that long and be as active and vital and vibrant as you are, that's rarer. What is your secret to staying so vital?
Oh, thank you for all those compliments. Most everybody in the theater who keeps working stays young. I think if you keep working in any business you remain a well-oiled machine. It's the ones who sit down and say, "Well, you must take it easy; you're getting older." You know, that's certain death.

I had the pleasure of interviewing Jack Klugman not long ago, and he has also reached his eighties. He has that same type of energy as you, and it just amazes me. I'm amazed at where that comes from.
Well, he never gave it up. He never stopped using it.

Looking back now, do you see anything that you would change or do differently?
No. Everything has led to more understanding. I don't think there's a wasted moment in anybody's life.

I want to thank you so much for this time. You truly are one of the treasures of the American theater, and Carbondale is looking so forward to your visit. Everyone is so very excited.
I'm very happy. You know, a university audience is the best audience in the world, because they ask such brilliant questions, very penetrating. I can't wait to be there. This has been very complimentary to me. This has been very flattering, really. You've made me feel very happy today.